Curse

I Eclipse The Sun · Apr 23, 2008, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athrun Feya

Sorry, remind me again. Who was trolling? I could say more about your whole post but I don't wish to offend anyone.

Both Deep and HM UW records are from "PuG" groups, I believe. That aside, the statement was simply set up to defend against the arrogance of certain guilds

And Again Athrun, your statements appear to have but an entertaining
purpose, as they - and you - do not seem to be bothered by any sense of
reality.
I will however - feeling most obviously the hand of the Almighty guide me in
this process - no longer patiently bear the presence of lice in [agro]'s fur
coat.

Allow me to begin with stating that [agro] has, since the "glorious" founding
of it by three renegades and the local madman, tried to maintain its standards
of eliteness, teamspirit and comradeship. As many other PvE guilds out there,
we battle for the best time in a varied scala of elite missions. Teams like
Fooster's & co, LoD, DVDF, do not but evoke our endless admiration. And
hope ofcourse to once break their fabulous records ^^

Let me, therefore, state very clearly: We do *not* need to boast of our
accomplishments. We rather let our deeds speak for themselves. (I do not
consider Screenshots accompanied with a couple of lines of text boasting?)
Have you, Athrun, Have other forum lurkers, ever seen us boast in the past,
in those glorious, yet long gone - but not forgotten! - days in which [agro]
held the time record for Doa HM, Fow or the more recent UW NM without
pve-skills? Have you? (Please do not feel obliged to answer this question, as
its answer is most obvious)

If you want the credit for the Deep record of 21mins - which Uber Mass
posted, allegedly implying this record was obtained by [agro]-members only -
or even the one of 19 mins, have it. Have it all, please. Teamspirit,
comradeship and respect for other people and their playstyle, I can, alas, not
offer you.

PS: Not adressing anyone in particular, my thoughts recently have been
subject to an extreme form of overnourishment, no more food for thoughts
please. No more Statements which shake like rotten teeth in the mouth of a
fishmonger's wife. Just mere, clearly stated facts will do.

Athrun Feya · Apr 23, 2008, 12:04 PM // 12:04

I need not dignify this with a proper reply. Clearly you have not actually read my posts; at no point have [agro] been accused of anything. I fully respect the guilds in-game achievements, especially the recent triumph in the DVDF UW event. However, I'm quite positive people don't need an essay to remind them of this.

Also, my intended definition of PuG is anyone who is not in guild, or alliance. Sorry for the confusion

I Eclipse The Sun · Apr 23, 2008, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

That depends on your definition of a "PUG". Having a few random experienced players who are willing to follow instructions in a 8-12 man team composed of people who have done a certain area over and over again and know each other's build and plan well.. hardly qualifies as a regular PUG imho.

PS. Try less smileys next time.

Allow me to actually question Athrun's definition of pugs again as I will specify the contents of Athrun's "Pug" Team even more.

The team we are talking about, which got a record time of 21 minutes,
consisted out of 3 [agro]-members, several members of the [agro]-alliance
which would not have been allowed in to this team if they either had a) a
social life b) hadn't lived in deep for months c) hadn't proved their
competence several times to - a pretty critical, if I may say so myself - jury.
From what I remember, as I forgot to screenshot it myself and do not have an
original copy with all the names not blanked out, the rest of the team was
made up of associates met in deep who met the earlier stated criteria: Hans
Baer, arguably the second best tank I met this far, Lady Nix, a German elite -
How contradictory! - player and some others of which I cannot extract the
name out of the deepest vaults of my acohol-infused thoughts. Basically,
every single player in that team was known to me, and very likely, to others
as well. Sounds like Pugs does it not?

PS: I am not aware to any Guru policies prohibiting me to actually call people by their ingame names. Should anyone not feel comfortable about him/her/it being named here, I will remove the name with the swiftness of a turtle in caffeine-induced extasy.

Celebrian · Apr 23, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Anyone whos in [agro] or our alliance will know that team was far from a pug group. Case closed, can we get back on topic now? :P

edit:
oh and DVDF hold the current UW NM record now (without pve skills) so grats to them! :P

Richardt · Apr 23, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

...My motive to raise this issue is actually along the lines of jealousy toward what the pvp crowd gets, as far as the sponsored tourneys arranged by Anet (I think). I was actually hoping that we could come up with a couple of different formats in pve style play that would help attract a larger crowd to this thread. Let's face it, there are plenty of people on either side of the ursan fence. If everyone could agree on a format of play that was limited in it's build construction, then more guilds may be more interested in competing using that format. The greater amount of community involvement that we can generate here, maybe, just maybe Anet may take notice and show some of us PvEers some love, too....

After this thread started getting more and more attention, I actually considered setting up my original post in more of a competitive manner.

It might drastically cut down on the Ursan/No Ursan, PvE Skills/No PvE skills, Cons/No Cons stuff, but then again (and this is what I'm worried about) it might drastically increase it, and a thread designed to stir some friendly competition would just degenerate into a series of flames and cat pictures.

Would people be more interested in my original post being set up something like this:

Quote:

Ursan Elite Area Records:
DoA:
FoW:
UW:
Urgoz:
Deep:
Slaver's Exile:
ToPK:
Sorrow's Furnace:

Non-Ursan Records:
DoA:
FoW:
UW:
Urgoz:
Deep:
Slaver's Exile:
ToPK:
Sorrow's Furnace:

No PvE Skills Records:
DoA:
FoW:
UW:
Urgoz:
Deep:
Slaver's Exile:
ToPK:
Sorrow's Furnace:

For reasons that DVDF posted with their UW run, I would be willing to let people use Cons to their heart's content. And we could set up records for both Normal Mode and Hard Mode. There wouldn't be any prizes, other then being able to brag about holding the record

What do you guys think?

Celebrian · Apr 23, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

And so the age of competative PvE is born!

It would be a lot easier to see record times if they were arranged like that in the original post. However, you would have to specify a quest for Sorrows Furnace, e.g final assault, as theres 4 or so before hand so it would be impossible to time a full sorrows furnace run fairly.

Richardt · Apr 23, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Yeah-you also would have the same issue with Slaver's and ToPK.

For all the multi part areas (and by this I mean areas not connected by an instance-so DoA I wouldn't count as multipart, but ToPK I would) I could see about breaking it down-for example for DoA, I could say full run record is ... and mallyx record is ...

romeus petrus · Apr 23, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Then the issue becomes mixed builds. Some have already pointed out that Imbagon is more overpwered than Ursan, but what about a team consisting of both imbagon and Ursan. Certainly that is more overpowered than Ursan alone, if all other factors are similar. What about other Blessings, simple SY/TNTF builds other than Imbagon, teams that are mostly balanced but use either ursans or PvE skills on certain players; like the one the LOD alliance uses for Urgoz HM that currently holds the record for Urgoz HM in 35 min (screen). Or the Fow HM Team build we use that has a mixture of various PvE skills including Ursan and Raven among others, that currently holds the record for the fastest FoW HM time (screen).

I think a three way division like you suggested Richardt is kinda redundant, especially when you give one entire category to just ursan alone, knowing that there are builds way more over powered than ursan. A simpler division maybe:

1) Any build that team chooses

2) No PvE skills what so ever.

This is the same approach that DVDF went with for their UW NM contest because it makes the most sense. Mind you, it is near impossible to know for a fact that no PvE skills were used unless you are on the team. Thats why IMHO, if we want to go for the fastest Elite area period, we shoud leave it open for players to pick the build they think will work for them.

I D E L E T E D I · Apr 23, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

2 Sections would be enough or not? One with PvE skill the other without.

All PvE skills are overpowered, doesn't matter if its Ursan or TNTF/SY.

But I would be very interested in this from a spectator point of view

Richardt · Apr 23, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Good points romeus! When I get around to modifying my original post, I'll just leave it as PvE skills and No PvE skills.

With the no PvE skills thing-yes it would be hard to regulate that sort of thing. I'm the trusting sort, and I hope we can use the honor systems on this one. Some may disagree with this, but I'd like to think that the guilds who participate in this would have some honor

How do you guys feel about seperating it between NM and HM? I feel that such a seperation allows guilds that primarily do NM to get a chance to strut their stuff.

hurric · Apr 23, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I wouldn't put imbagon as the same category as ursan. TNTF/SY paragon in a team with 7 other players who may or may not use some of these EOTN skills such as "You move like a dwarf" or something is not in the same level as 6 ursans and 2 monks with ursan being overpowered in offence whereas the para reduces partywide damage.

I say 3 categories:

Ursan
Non ursan and some pve skills
No Pve skills

Richardt · Apr 23, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Okay guys-I changed my original post based off of the suggestions.

Since there really isn't a fair compromise about Ursan vs. Other PvE skills, I'm going to follow romeus' suggestion and just lump them all together.

There is also a section for Normal Mode to, so guilds who don't do alot of HM can still participate

.

EDIT: I went through the thread and posted the times I found listed. If I overlooked someone, please let me know. I haven't added in the links to the posts just yet.

Nemo the Capitalist · Apr 23, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

Is that including Mallyx or just the four areas?

oh mallyx with all 4 was

110 minutes (including 5 min bathroom brk)

halbatross · Apr 23, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

UW: 35 Minutes->this seems to involve a series of guilds-if I could get a list of all involved I can give shared credit
Urgoz: 35 Minutes-[ LOD]
Deep: 19 Minutes-[THIS]

The Deep record is also shared between several guilds (not that easy to make a 12-man guild run

). Not sure how you want to credit that sort of record (maybe "mixed" + link to screenies), but some members in our alliance from [agro], [ Live ] and [grrr] hold it as well, amongst other guilds.

I don't know if this run has been posted yet, but it shows members from all the guilds listed above as proof.

Richardt · Apr 23, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

I updated it-let me know if everything is correct

MMSDome · Apr 23, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

First off yes there should be 3 categories seeing as how ursanlol is far more overpowered then the other pve skills.

Its tough to decide what should be done (making a ladder is a joke in the first place since real records probably aren't even posted) because i would say pve skills and non-pve skills but then ursan would be thrown under pve skills. It is no joke to anyone that ursan takes no skill to use as all it is is 1, 2, 3 repeat. Then again you can argue that pve as a whole is easy and completely lol at the idea of a pve ladder (i know i did).

If you must make a ladder do a pve skill one, non pve, and lolursan. Yes the Ursan ladder would be a joke but I guess you need to make even the scrubs that cant play gw happy as well.

romeus petrus · Apr 24, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

Originally Posted by Hard Mode Records

PvE Skills Records:
DoA: a) Four Bosses: b) Mallyx:
FoW: 44 Minutes [ LOD ]/[SCAR]
UW: 35 Minutes->this seems to involve a series of guilds-if I could get a list of all involved I can give shared credit
Urgoz: 35 Minutes-[ LOD]
Deep: 19 Minutes-[THIS]/[agro]/[ Live]/[grrr]
Slaver's Exile: a) Tommis and Rand: b) Selvetarm: c) Forgewight: d) Duncan:
ToPK: a) 1st Floor: b) 2nd Floor: c) 3rd Floor: d) 4th Floor
Sorrow's Furnace: a) Galen Trask's Quest: b) Kilroy Stoneskin's Quest: c) High Priest Alkar's Quest: d) Orozar Highstone's Quest: e) Final Assault:

LOD and SCAR are sister guilds and part of the same alliance our runs are always joint. I dont know how u want to put this but it is considered the same guild. Whenever we post a time we usually say it's an LOD alliance time.

Richardt · Apr 24, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

I want to give everyone who was in on the run credit-if people are happy saying it's an alliance run, I can say for example [ LOD] Alliance.

I just want to give credit where credit is due

Game N Die · Apr 24, 2008, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

First off yes there should be 3 categories seeing as how ursanlol is far more overpowered then the other pve skills.

Its tough to decide what should be done (making a ladder is a joke in the first place since real records probably aren't even posted) because i would say pve skills and non-pve skills but then ursan would be thrown under pve skills. It is no joke to anyone that ursan takes no skill to use as all it is is 1, 2, 3 repeat. Then again you can argue that pve as a whole is easy and completely lol at the idea of a pve ladder (i know i did).

If you must make a ladder do a pve skill one, non pve, and lolursan. Yes the Ursan ladder would be a joke but I guess you need to make even the scrubs that cant play gw happy as well.

To be absolutely clear, MMSDome, I am only quoting you, not to single you out, but because I believe that there are quite a few GW players that feel as you do about ursan and/or the pvp vs. pve sentiments you expressed. Personally, I support two formats, and might I be so bold as to suggest: The "Open" format, which would be all skills, and "Limited" format, meaning limited to non-pve only skills. HM and NM could obviously be tacked on to the format chosen. An interesting point brought up by a guildy yesterday is that a timer could fairly easily be implemented into the elite areas, as the structure already exists as shown by the challange missions.

I challange all that share MMSDome's opinions to support this so that you can compete with all PvE enthusiasts, and show us how skill-less we are and how easy this is

romeus petrus · Apr 24, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

I want to give everyone who was in on the run credit-if people are happy saying it's an alliance run, I can say for example [ LOD] Alliance.

I just want to give credit where credit is due

Ya that would make sense, especially as we sometimes have more ppl in the team outside of LOD and SCAR yet in the LOD alliance.